From smoking to crackling

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fred ungewitter
Posts: 355
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Location: East Central FL, USA
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Laser Machine Make or Type: Redsail Clone
Laser Power: 60W
Laser Bed Size: 500 x 700
Home Position: TR
RDWorks Version: 8.01.18
Accessories: Chuck style rotary, 30 ma meter, home-spun office water cooler mod, muffin fan anti-condensate blower
Windows Version: Windows 7

From smoking to crackling

Post by fred ungewitter » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:03 pm

Having enjoyed the rush of getting my machine aligned, I jumped right into creating those teardrop cut and engrave test items. Long story short (truly), my laser went from doing halfway decent text engraving to putting nothing on the acrylic, accompanied by surprisingly large lightning crackles at the HV end.

I figure that the tube is shot. If this interpretation is incorrect, please fire off a correction.

I've sent an email to the eBay seller (2 year warranty? Ha!) to see what response I get. I expect nothing satisfactory, of course. Thanks to this forum, my first stop was Light Objects.

The tube I have is 1000mm which shows on that site as being a 45w rating. Of course, the eBay listing says 60w and I was able to DooHICkey measure 55w at 18 ma, a surprise.

First question. If this is supposedly a 60w laser, does that mean the power supply is rated at 60w? Should I be able to find such a marking for confirmation? Can I trust it if it reads 60w?

Let's say that I can trust this 60w power supply. If I purchase a true 60w tube from LO, would it be a straight wiring reconnect to get that level of power from my system?

Unfortunately, LO is out of stock of the 1200 mm 60w tubes, which means I'll have to find another vendor.

Any recommendations for an alternate equally reputable source for a true 60w laser tube?
fred

Redsail clone 60w 700 x 500 REAL 60w Puri tube
home upper right, chuck type rotary 15000 pulse setting
RDW 8.01.18
Win7

Emblaser A3 4w diode laser
BCN3D Sigma Dual Extruder 3d printer
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Gene Uselman
Posts: 1313
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Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by Gene Uselman » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:07 pm

I would check for the HV arcing to the chassis first, that sounds like crackling. Gene

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fred ungewitter
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:55 pm
Location: East Central FL, USA
Country: USA
Nickname: fred
Laser Machine Make or Type: Redsail Clone
Laser Power: 60W
Laser Bed Size: 500 x 700
Home Position: TR
RDWorks Version: 8.01.18
Accessories: Chuck style rotary, 30 ma meter, home-spun office water cooler mod, muffin fan anti-condensate blower
Windows Version: Windows 7

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by fred ungewitter » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:19 pm

I'm able to see huge arcs from the top of the HV end of the tube to the top of the Y-axis motor just below. Impressively clean white zaps of amazing force and great morale destruction.

I've been using The Google and eBay to locate options. It's clear that there are many "60w" laser tubes of 1000mm length available for unaware buyers. The 1200mm tubes are at least two hundred united states dollars more expensive.

One of the listings for a real 60w tube is for Puri brand, which is a name I've seen here previously. Also US shipping from a supposed US distributor, more points on the positive side. Four hundred nineteen dollars, yikes.
fred

Redsail clone 60w 700 x 500 REAL 60w Puri tube
home upper right, chuck type rotary 15000 pulse setting
RDW 8.01.18
Win7

Emblaser A3 4w diode laser
BCN3D Sigma Dual Extruder 3d printer
LMS Mini-mill
Cube 3rd gen 3d printer, universal filament mod
Under construction: OX CNC 1000x750 router

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Keith Sherwin
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RDWorks Version: V8.01.23
Accessories: Hot dog roller, doHICkey Power Meter, Multi-Lens, High power exhaust, Interior filter soon.
Windows Version: W7 Pro

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by Keith Sherwin » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:28 pm

Fred, It sounds like the insulation has fallen off the tube connection or the wire has. Please take a photo if you can - no need to get the arc in the photo. Not sure what would happen if the ground had disconnected but you might look at that also and confirm it indeed is still going to ground.
:idea: Started this forum.
Lead in creation of the RDWorksLab English Manual.
Cheers, :D
Keith

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fred ungewitter
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:55 pm
Location: East Central FL, USA
Country: USA
Nickname: fred
Laser Machine Make or Type: Redsail Clone
Laser Power: 60W
Laser Bed Size: 500 x 700
Home Position: TR
RDWorks Version: 8.01.18
Accessories: Chuck style rotary, 30 ma meter, home-spun office water cooler mod, muffin fan anti-condensate blower
Windows Version: Windows 7

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by fred ungewitter » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:41 pm

IMG_3246.JPG
IMG_3246.JPG (858.65 KiB) Viewed 203 times
IMG_3247.JPG
IMG_3247.JPG (823.85 KiB) Viewed 203 times
High voltage end photo one, low voltage end photo two

I've been firing off 10-12 percent test pulses during my alignment. Now that alignment was "completed," I moved onto the ultimate goal of production. To that end, I realize now that I gradually increased the power through 15, 20 and finally 30 percent. The first tests at the lower power went okay, no crackles. It's apparent that once I reached 30 percent power, the alleged insulation on the tube broke down.

After reading that soldering the connections voids the warranty, I checked the existing connections and found they are quite secure. I can slide the nylon tube over the connection, but the connection within is well coated.

The low voltage end is equally secure. During the lower power tests, the ammeter was reading the expected figures for the power settings.
fred

Redsail clone 60w 700 x 500 REAL 60w Puri tube
home upper right, chuck type rotary 15000 pulse setting
RDW 8.01.18
Win7

Emblaser A3 4w diode laser
BCN3D Sigma Dual Extruder 3d printer
LMS Mini-mill
Cube 3rd gen 3d printer, universal filament mod
Under construction: OX CNC 1000x750 router

User avatar
Keith Sherwin
Site Admin
Posts: 1593
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Heart of Canada
Country: Canada
Nickname: Keith
Laser Machine Make or Type: POS China
Laser Power: 80
Laser Bed Size: 400 x 600
Home Position: TL
RDWorks Version: V8.01.23
Accessories: Hot dog roller, doHICkey Power Meter, Multi-Lens, High power exhaust, Interior filter soon.
Windows Version: W7 Pro

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by Keith Sherwin » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:20 pm

Fred, It looks like the RED insulation is bad where it goes through the cut splice in the plastic. A bit hard to tell, but a closeup should show. It should be EXACTLY the same as it is 2 " further out from the white plastic. Is that where it is arcing from?
:idea: Started this forum.
Lead in creation of the RDWorksLab English Manual.
Cheers, :D
Keith

User avatar
fred ungewitter
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:55 pm
Location: East Central FL, USA
Country: USA
Nickname: fred
Laser Machine Make or Type: Redsail Clone
Laser Power: 60W
Laser Bed Size: 500 x 700
Home Position: TR
RDWorks Version: 8.01.18
Accessories: Chuck style rotary, 30 ma meter, home-spun office water cooler mod, muffin fan anti-condensate blower
Windows Version: Windows 7

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by fred ungewitter » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:34 pm

In the photo above, it does appear that the insulation has melted. In the photos below, I hope one can see that the bumps are transparent silicone or similar sealant. The sparks were emanating from the side of the tube not visible in the photos, the "front" of the hv end of the tube, visible only from the front of the machine. These photos were taken from the back. I tried to see if any burn marks were visible, but there's nothing of that nature showing.

I did not want to keep the sparks a'flyin' but was able to determine that they originate slightly above the halfway point of the diameter of the hv end... or something like that.

The video I took shows zero detail, as the bright flashes of the arcs overpower the shutter's ability to manage exposure.
IMG_3248.JPG
IMG_3248.JPG (710.64 KiB) Viewed 195 times
IMG_3249.JPG
IMG_3249.JPG (555.99 KiB) Viewed 195 times
fred

Redsail clone 60w 700 x 500 REAL 60w Puri tube
home upper right, chuck type rotary 15000 pulse setting
RDW 8.01.18
Win7

Emblaser A3 4w diode laser
BCN3D Sigma Dual Extruder 3d printer
LMS Mini-mill
Cube 3rd gen 3d printer, universal filament mod
Under construction: OX CNC 1000x750 router

User avatar
Keith Sherwin
Site Admin
Posts: 1593
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Heart of Canada
Country: Canada
Nickname: Keith
Laser Machine Make or Type: POS China
Laser Power: 80
Laser Bed Size: 400 x 600
Home Position: TL
RDWorks Version: V8.01.23
Accessories: Hot dog roller, doHICkey Power Meter, Multi-Lens, High power exhaust, Interior filter soon.
Windows Version: W7 Pro

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by Keith Sherwin » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:46 pm

Right you are. The silicone looked like a break in the insulation but the closeup removed that as a possibility.

I am now into the GUESSING POINT :!: :!:
If it was my tube, I would clean off the side of the tube where it arcs, with some isopropyl alcohol, let it dry then pulse again.
If that still arcs, I would open the fitting to the tube and clean out the silicon and make sure the wire was connected to the tube. If it is, my GUESS would be - You are HOOPED :!:

Don't take my word for it though.
Malcolm, or others, have had more experience with a bad tube. I have not yet had that misfortune.
:idea: Started this forum.
Lead in creation of the RDWorksLab English Manual.
Cheers, :D
Keith

User avatar
Keith Sherwin
Site Admin
Posts: 1593
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Heart of Canada
Country: Canada
Nickname: Keith
Laser Machine Make or Type: POS China
Laser Power: 80
Laser Bed Size: 400 x 600
Home Position: TL
RDWorks Version: V8.01.23
Accessories: Hot dog roller, doHICkey Power Meter, Multi-Lens, High power exhaust, Interior filter soon.
Windows Version: W7 Pro

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by Keith Sherwin » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:07 pm

Moved this topic to help area.
:idea: Started this forum.
Lead in creation of the RDWorksLab English Manual.
Cheers, :D
Keith

Ron Gosnell
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:05 pm
Location: Arkansas

Re: From smoking to crackling

Post by Ron Gosnell » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:26 pm

I would agree to open that connection and redo it. Nothing to lose right. I would also get a couple feet of thick rubber tubing and insulate the hv wire. As everyone knows with that high voltage if there is any breakdown in the insulation it's gonna find a ground. It was also a great suggestion to wipe the tube down with alcohol.
Gozzie
ThunderLaser Mars 90 130 watt 900 x 600 TL
Ruida 644XG Controller RDWORKS 8.01.18
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