cheap chiller idea

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sebastien laforet
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:23 am
Location: Lyon, France

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby sebastien laforet » Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:43 am

they can run 24/7, but how much heat can they dissipate? an aquarium chiller is made to cool water that receives not much heat (large volume, very low heat absorption surface, small water/air temperature difference).

with the laser, the water receives a lot of calories, so if the chiller can not dissipate that much, the chiller will still work, but the water will turn to hot soup, then tea... the lesser water you have, the quickest it will heat.

so, you have to play with this parameters :
- a great volume of water
- continuous work of the chiller
- intermittent work of the laser

i have a CW-5000, and it needs only 6 liters, as the calorific dissipation is strong. i'm not willing to have to use 50 or even 100l of water in my basement to accomodate the smaller power of an aquarium chiller.

the aquarium chiller link abose says it has 0.1 horsepower, wich is around 75W. this is very low... (and, this is supposing that everything turns to refrigerating power...)

according to some calculator, 75W is 255 BTU/hour, and 1 BTU is necessary to heat/refresh 1 pound of water for 1°F.

so, i you have 40 pounds of water (20 liters? not sure what sort of pound it is), you can decrease its temp of only 12°F which is only around 6-7°C when the chiller works for a complete hour. (and if you have more water, let's say 100 pounds, you can decrease it only 2 or 3°c in the same duration)

i'm pretty sure that a laser working continuously can produce at least this same amount of heat... not a big problem with large tank and pauses of the laser. but i you aim for 8h/day of lasering, the aquarium chiller will obviously be outpaced by the heat output of the laser.
Sébastien Laforet
machine : Bodor BCL-0605 (60x50) with 100W laser with TR origin.
Live in France
Primarily works laser for my wife (school teacher, so lots of boxes, letters, puzzles, ...) and miniature scenery (32mm scale : warmachine, infinity)

Jason Wright
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:57 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Jason Wright » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:16 am

a strong arguement for the ue of a proper cw5000
Chinese 700x500 80 watt machine - TR
Mods: custom air assist off a workshop compressor, ammeter installed, switch panel, overnight internal tube heater

RD works V8.01.18 windows 10

Jason

Chris Berry
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:58 am
Location: Crete, Greece

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Chris Berry » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:40 pm

Sebastian, some aquarium chillers run a compressor heat-pump (as opposed to a peltier) so with a COP of say 4, they should be able to cope with a 40W laser.
Seeing as most of my long laser runs are scanning at 35% or below, they would quite safely handle that as well.
The big question though, to me is whether the chiller is fitted with proper control circuitry to disable the laser if it's switched off. That alone would justify saving a tube or two.
The secondary question is whether temperature stability (important for consistent output) is required.
The cheapest chiller would simply be a tub of water or a kiddy paddling pool with a canister type aquarium filter with a pedestal fan providing evaporative cooling. Not practical but certainly usable with the additional benefit of having a very large reservoir - hence temperature stability built-in.
--------
Chris
--------

Weike 130 x 90 100W RECI Laser TR
Windows 7, RDWORKS V8.01.10

Doug Fisher
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:42 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Doug Fisher » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:29 pm

FWIW, and I know your machine may be different, but most ebay lasers that are intended to use the bucket-and-aquarium pump cooling method have the flow monitor already installed inline so anyone upgrading one of these to a chiller system won't necessarily need to worry if the aquarium chiller has flow protection built into it. I just mention this for others who might be reading this thread (and I am not promoting the aquarium chiller since I don't have any experience with it).
80 Watt 700mm x 500mm Ke Hui KH-7050 Laser (Similar to the Red Sail),T.R.
LaSea/EFR F2 Series laser tube, RuiDa RDC6442G EC controller, 2" lens, RDWorks v8.01.18, CW 5000 chiller, Chuck type of rotary attachment
Doug

sebastien laforet
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:23 am
Location: Lyon, France

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby sebastien laforet » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:34 am

Doug Fisher wrote:FWIW, and I know your machine may be different, but most ebay lasers that are intended to use the bucket-and-aquarium pump cooling method have the flow monitor already installed inline so anyone upgrading one of these to a chiller system won't necessarily need to worry


exactly. i was so sure that the water-flow control was inlined in my machine that i did not understand why i had "water error" even with the CW-5000 chiller on... in fact, there was a cable with an aviator plug so that the chiller is making all the control and sends the signal to the machine via this cable... not documented, and the cable was inside the machine, so i did not see it immediately.

if you purchase your machine with "standard" water flow (aquarium pump), this is almost sure that the flow detector is already inside the machine.

whatever, if you have a better installation that bucket+aquarium pump, you should make your own flow + temp sensor, as i'm fairly sure that the inlined detector does NOT check for temperature.

be also aware that you can change the setting with rdworks to ignore the water signal... probably not a good idea.
Sébastien Laforet
machine : Bodor BCL-0605 (60x50) with 100W laser with TR origin.
Live in France
Primarily works laser for my wife (school teacher, so lots of boxes, letters, puzzles, ...) and miniature scenery (32mm scale : warmachine, infinity)

Michael Dunning
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:02 pm
Location: Alabama USA

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Michael Dunning » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:10 am

Does anyone have experience with the house brand Light Object chillers? I'm on the fence between the 600 watt and 800 watt chillers because there doesn't seem to be much of a price jump between the 60W and 80W tubes:

Lightobject 600W Mini Water Chiller for CO2 laser machine (AC110V 60Hz)
EBay Chinese 60W (45W actual) laser cutter, 700x500mm, (TR)
RDWorks V8.01.18 and V8.00.27
Michael

Robert Komada
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:29 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Robert Komada » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:21 am

I bought the 600W (p/n WC-LO600W1V6) for my 50W eBay laser and have been really happy with it. I have had it running for about a year and it keeps my water at 18C with no issues. When the fans kick in it is louder than my laser fan/air assist pump, but it is not unbearable (i.e. we have the laser/chiller in the office and my office mates don't complain). The only thing that kind of surprised me was how little water it holds. I was using a 5 gallon cooler/aquarium pump previously, and this takes only a fraction of the water (maybe a gallon)? Regardless, it does its job, and it is great not having to worry about the ambient office temperature anymore.
"50W" eBay SH-G350 500x300mm laser
RDWorks 8.01.18
Robert from San Francisco, CA

Doug Fisher
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:42 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Doug Fisher » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:28 pm

I looked into buying the LO chiller. The LO one closest to the CW5000 had specifications that showed it could not cool nearly as low as the CW5000 and as Robert said the reservoir wasn't as big. I thought the temp specification was a typo so I called LO and the owner said he thought is was right but would retest. In the end, the LO is probably just as functional but I found a decent deal on ebay for a genuine CW5000 and just went with that. Prices on these units do vary a lot from seller to seller and week to week. Watching over time, I have seen the CW5000 prices for genuine S&A unit with fast shipping to a US address vary from upper $500s then to mid $700s when supplies got low.
80 Watt 700mm x 500mm Ke Hui KH-7050 Laser (Similar to the Red Sail),T.R.
LaSea/EFR F2 Series laser tube, RuiDa RDC6442G EC controller, 2" lens, RDWorks v8.01.18, CW 5000 chiller, Chuck type of rotary attachment
Doug

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Gene Uselman
Posts: 794
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:18 pm
Location: Suburban Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Gene Uselman » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:55 pm

I am not sure that anything sold in China is 'Genuine'- there is no honor among thieves and I think that is their culture. There are counterfeits of anything that will sell. Gene
Gene- 130W 1300x900 China Laser with 2" FL lens
V8.01.19 RDWorks on Win 7 pro
500mm Z, blade table machine home is upper right.

100W Reci tube in a Bodor BCL0605MU V8.01.19
600x500x 200Z, SS table, 2" FL- mach home upper right
Vectric Aspire software- FlexiSignPro- vector/bitmap

Dustin Hawkinson
Posts: 141
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:55 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA

Re: cheap chiller idea

Postby Dustin Hawkinson » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:07 pm

On a whim today I picked up an office water cooler (for drinking water) to experiment with for $30. It is the old style that is more heavy duty than the new ones from back when you had to rent them. The guy I bought it from said it works much better than the new consumer types, and he purchased it as a refurbished unit in Ohio before he moved here.

I'll see what I can do with it and report back if it works.
40W (ebay 50W blue wonder), 300mm x 500m, TL
Windows10 RDW 8.01.19
(The member formerly known as astral)
-Dustin


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